Curse

Cambios · Sep 15, 2010, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Is the information in this guide up to date? I just want to be sure.

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 15, 2010, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Yeah, I updated it a few weeks ago.

JimmyDeemo · Oct 11, 2010, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Marty this guide is great and gave me a lot better insight into how to play my warrior.

As a warrior who went through Prophecies and now starting EotN, i feel like I'm very light on the skills you've got listed down. Are skills something that i should specifically look for (bar Elites) or do the majority of them just come along with progressing through the content?

I've got a W/Ra right now and i tried to take your advice using the cookie cutter template. I don't have any elite skills right now, this is what I've got. Is there anything really stupid about that?

Any comments much appreciated.

LifeInfusion · Oct 11, 2010, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Note: Warriors should not be using “Luck of the Draw” (-5/20%). Don’t let the high selling price deceive you.

Preaching to the choir here.

Warriors ought to be using -20% blind, -20% cripple, +10 vs fire/lightning/earth/water.

Note on PvXwiki, skills:

Conjures (especially conjure flame) are lame in HM and unless you are running Whirlwind/Tenai's wind, most ele skills won't see use since everything is priced with attunements in mind. Since many warriors run Shock (though not in PVE), Conjure Lightning is also better for this reason.

"You Move Like a Dwarf!"/"Finish Him!" cost 10 energy, so it's only viable if you have Warrior's endurance and/or a Zealous weapon

"Save Yourselves!" -- staple to bar when with henches; godlike with any group unless you have a P/W that is spamming this already

Brawling Headbutt -- with FGJ - enraging charge... staple to your bar if henching since nobody will have YMLAD

Without using an elite, Swords have not much going for them. You have:
Standing Slash, which costs 1 less adrenaline than Body Blow;
Riposte/Deadly riposte (which are in tactics);
Savage slash (disrupting chop, and agonizing chop on axe don't do the damage and need adrenaline);
Barbarous Slice (which requires you to be out of a stance)
Final Thrust (not that great in PVE)
Steelfang slash (needs Brawling Headbutt)
Pure Strike (energy skill with 8 recharge)
Kneecutter (not very useful unless you use Hamstring, which is expensive)
Sun and Moon slash (use with 100B...not much else other than for 1 adrenaline gain)

Axes have:
Dismember (unconditional Deep wound)
Disrupting Chop (d-shot without activation time...so it's harder to use)
Cyclone Axe (to build adrenaline)
Swift Chop (deals with Guardian/Aegis better than Seeking Blade)
Penetrating Blow (only decent due to 5 adrenaline cost)
Executioner's Strike (I use Body Blow.)
Agonizing Chop (free interrupt after dismember)
Furious Axe (high damage)

Most of the time I like Body Blow over Executioner's Strike/ Galrath Slash, since it is cheaper and has a conditional Deep Wound. Then again you need about 13-14 Strength.

I'd drop Tactics all together.

12+1+1 Strength = instant Save Yourselves when you have FGJ and enraging charge
12+1 weapon ... to smash things in

Sentinel's Insignias/Dreadnought/Knight's, Stonefist insignia on hands if running brawling headbutt
Superior Vigor
Minor Strength
Minor Weapon
Clarity/Vitae
Superior Absorption

(No tactics rune)

F1 Longbow for pulling
F2 Vamp Sword/Axe with +5 Defense
F3 Furious Sword/Axe with +5 Defense
F4 Shocking Sword/Axe with +5 Defense , Icy Sword/Axe with +5 Defense (vs Destroyers)
Shield with -20% blind, +30HP for sets F2 through F4
Shield with +10 vs fire, +30HP for areas where blind isn't an issue but fire damage is

Please add this:

Quote:

Customize your weapons!
+20% damage. I don't care how pretty your weapon is. Customize it or just get a white weapon and customize it instead for +5% more damage than your perfect 15>50 rare.

Love your thread by the way.

Bandwagon · Oct 11, 2010, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Marty, I feel this guide is very informative not just for Warriors-users, but also for all frontliners in general in GW. Keep up the good work mate!

One thing I think you may want to add is a discussion / observation of the Lieutenant's Insignia (the one that lowers armor by 20 (stacking), damage by 5% (stacking) and hex durations on you by 20% (non-stacking). Obviously in 99.9% of all situations this insignia is useless and it might be worthwhile to add a section in for any up and coming warrior users.

**Marty Silverblade** · Oct 11, 2010, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyDeemo

Marty this guide is great and gave me a lot better insight into how to play my warrior.

Thanks

.

Quote:

As a warrior who went through Prophecies and now starting EotN, i feel like I'm very light on the skills you've got listed down. Are skills something that i should specifically look for (bar Elites) or do the majority of them just come along with progressing through the content?

I always just got every skill as soon as I saw it was available. Don't know if people do that now or just buy whatever they feel they need. Anyway, you can check wiki and see when skills are available. If, like Flail, they aren't available for a long time, unlock them with Balthazar Faction and buy them from any skill trainer in the campaign (in the case of Flail, Kamadan would work). You can't do much about elites unless you want to unlock them and buy elite tomes, but they're not worth it unless money is no longer a concern whatsoever.

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I've got a W/Ra right now and i tried to take your advice using the cookie cutter template. I don't have any elite skills right now, this is what I've got. Is there anything really stupid about that?

Given it's Prophecies only it's not too bad. 2 important things though.

1) Bleeding is a crap condition. It produces 3 pips of health degen which is worth 6 damage per second. Sever Artery is only worthwhile if you have Gash as well.
2) If you're running Frenzy you need something to cancel it with, like Rush. If you don't you might find yourself locked into double damage when something bad happens. It opens the door for instant kills in HM. Getting a hero with Protective Spirit makes life easier (you should generally always have Prot Spirit on your hero setups somewhere).

Actually, it looks like you'd be really pushed for energy. AP + FGJ already consumes what you've got, let alone Frenzy and Pure Strike. Ditch PS for Gash and switch AP for some other less energy intensive damage producer.

PS: I wouldn't recommend playing EotN until you've finished the other campaigns first. You get more skills and playing experience that way, not to mention EotN was designed for highly experienced players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Warriors ought to be using -20% blind, -20% cripple, +10 vs fire/lightning/earth/water.

There's no doubt those are optimal, but I can never be bothered switching shields. I like to keep my Warrior clean so I throw Empathic Removal on my MB. Smite Condition when I'm running Smiting somewhere. Anywhere where blind or cripple are really troublesome (like SoO) I fit MBaS onto my SoS Rit.

Quote:

Conjures (especially conjure flame) are lame in HM and unless you are running Whirlwind/Tenai's wind, most ele skills won't see use since everything is priced with attunements in mind. Since many warriors run Shock (though not in PVE), Conjure Lightning is also better for this reason.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Conjures add straight +damage on the top of your attacks? I don't see how this makes Conjure Flame any different from the others. Unless they're referring to have to use a Fire based weapon rather than something less commonly resisted. Meh, it's not like any serious PvE Warrior should use them anyway.

Quote:

"You Move Like a Dwarf!"/"Finish Him!" cost 10 energy, so it's only viable if you have Warrior's endurance and/or a Zealous weapon

If you aren't using energy much you can throw one of them in if you have an extra slot. I wouldn't really use them in super serious builds.

Quote:

Brawling Headbutt -- with FGJ - enraging charge... staple to your bar if henching since nobody will have YMLAD

In easier areas, or with Spiritway, the knockdown is often not particularly important. It drops your DPS a bit, so if when I don't want the KD I drop it (and Steelfang Slash) for Whirlwind Attack (goes nicely with DSlash) and whatever else you want. Granted, I know exactly what I'm getting into so I know when I do and don't need it, which new players won't.

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Without using an elite, Swords have not much going for them. You have:
Standing Slash, which costs 1 less adrenaline than Body Blow; Great.
Riposte/Deadly riposte (which are in tactics); Crap DPS, crap attribute. DSlash + Riposte would be amusing but there are better things to alternate it with
Savage slash (disrupting chop, and agonizing chop on axe don't do the damage and need adrenaline); mmmk. Only if you don't have any better options though. 15 second recharge is a bit... meh, and I'd rather be smashing attack skills of choice rather than focusing on hitting an interrupt.
Barbarous Slice (which requires you to be out of a stance) Warrior's not in a stance are doing it wrong. Thus no bleeding, and Standing Slash is better at 6adr.
Final Thrust (not that great in PVE) Ok in Prophecies, I guess, where you don't have access to super adrenaline engines.
Steelfang slash (needs Brawling Headbutt) Only to accompany BH.
Pure Strike (energy skill with 8 recharge) @14Sword it's only getting you 3.5DPS. Unblockable clause useless because you should be in a stance always.
Kneecutter (not very useful unless you use Hamstring, which is expensive) Nice, but cripple is an awkward condition. No nice way to apply it and it's not too useful outside of KC.
Sun and Moon slash (use with 100B...not much else other than for 1 adrenaline gain) If you've got lots of +damage buffs stacked on you the second hit can often be worth more than the +40 from DSlash

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Axes have: Don't use axes much anymore nowadays, really.
Dismember (unconditional Deep wound) Good.
Disrupting Chop (d-shot without activation time...so it's harder to use) No quick activation time makes it a lucky shot rather than a reliable interrupt. Once again, I don't value interrupts on melees, really.
Cyclone Axe (to build adrenaline) Yeah, ok. Not my favourite skill but it works.
Swift Chop (deals with Guardian/Aegis better than Seeking Blade) I never took this skill seriously but it looks useful enough if you don't have anything better.
Penetrating Blow (only decent due to 5 adrenaline cost) Agreed.
Executioner's Strike (I use Body Blow.) Either is fine, and there's no reason you can't use both if you wanted to.
Agonizing Chop (free interrupt after dismember) Yeah, might as well.
Furious Axe (high damage)I wouldn't call it high damage. The +adr looks good though..

Quote:

* 12+1+1 Strength = instant Save Yourselves when you have FGJ and enraging charge
* 12+1 weapon ... to smash things in

You only need EC to return 3 adr to get instant SY. Remember you get adr for your actual hit as well as that EC adrenaline.

Quote:

Sentinel's Insignias/Dreadnought/Knight's, Stonefist insignia on hands if running brawling headbutt
Superior Vigor
Minor Strength
Minor Weapon
Clarity/Vitae
Superior Absorption

Sentry's is good too, +10 vs. everything and basically unconditional.

Quote:

F1 Longbow for pulling
F2 Vamp Sword/Axe with +5 Defense
F3 Furious Sword/Axe with +5 Defense
F4 Shocking Sword/Axe with +5 Defense , Icy Sword/Axe with +5 Defense (vs Destroyers)
Shield with -20% blind, +30HP for sets F2 through F4
Shield with +10 vs fire, +30HP for areas where blind isn't an issue but fire damage is

I'd fit a zealous in there somewhere. Agreed with the +5AL; it is better than +30.

Quote:

Please add this:

Yes. I told myself the last writeup would be the last one. Then I did this one, and I've still got stuff to fix up

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon

Marty, I feel this guide is very informative not just for Warriors-users, but also for all frontliners in general in GW. Keep up the good work mate!

Thanks

.

Quote:

One thing I think you may want to add is a discussion / observation of the Lieutenant's Insignia (the one that lowers armor by 20 (stacking), damage by 5% (stacking) and hex durations on you by 20% (non-stacking). Obviously in 99.9% of all situations this insignia is useless and it might be worthwhile to add a section in for any up and coming warrior users.

Yeah, I should mention it. It is quite quirky. I'll include it in the next update but that won't be for a few weeks. I'm snowed under with all the stuff I have to do now.

Perfected Shadow · Oct 11, 2010, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Meh I use +20% damage vs x species mods as well such as demonslaying, etc. (since these mods only exist for warrior weapons and bows, might as well use them. Insert smartass +20% staff too if you like staffspieking k) . Yes it retards inventory space, but seeing bigger numbers is worth it.

Master Fuhon · Oct 12, 2010, 12:32 AM // 00:32

I hadn't read this until now. Any Warrior Guide about tactics desperately needs mention of bodyblocking and movement while attacking. I see this was written in 2008 and tools are available to get away with things, but still... I don't why a stickied class guide should assume people are grouping with experienced players who know what they are doing. Those types don't need guides.

I was reminded by doing Vizunah pugs this weekend. Positioning during a simple "pull" is intuitive enough that people can learn it. When the mobs "spawn", you can be almost certain there is at least one person with atrocious positioning who is going to be the gazelle that gets picked by the lions (this was Alesia, if you played with AI in the early game). And oh yes, in pugs, it always comes out when the mobs pop-up like Tomb of Primevil Kings or Urgoz. The first time I really ran into the need to body block was doing the 6 person Riverside Mission with the White Mantle, since every group doing them only took one healer and had trouble with the patrol pattern. And the Mantle used "I Will Avenge You", so they could easily take down your casters (who let's be honest, hadn't purchased the most recent tier of armor).

The most important tactic you can learn on a durable character is how to impede melee characters who would target someone else. Sure, this is often intuitively done when you pull, or when you are the sole character entering aggro range first. But when you execute this properly (or you have the assistance of any other stationary object like you mentioned), often you can save weaker party members should something go wrong. Then you can gradually backpedal melee stragglers into your teams AoE damage, while still attacking. The warrior who alters enemy positioning is far more valuable than the warrior who just does DPS. Although if you were using Bull's Strike, you would reposition between him and his target after using it. Body blocking on any durable character is still one of the most fundamental skills in the game.

Which goes into why I mentioned bodyblocking with the other fundamental, moving while attacking, which you should still try even if you are at the beginner level where you interrupt your attacks while moving (haven't learned side step/quarter step yet). I say this, because moving while attacking is an enhancement to body blocking because it allows you to retain your other functions. When you execute it properly, you can get the extra adrenaline strike built up from the closest enemy, before you reposition yourself into a place between multiple enemies.

Now again, I said this was written in 2008, when people probably stopped using this technique because they were probably just using Enraging Charge to more efficiently build adrenaline into Save Youselves, Brawling Headbutt, and Whirlwind Attack (and grouping only with experienced players). But still, it's invaluable to assume this kind of positioning when there are two healers (often having stronger other targetted heals than self-targetted) or a nearby rezzer. Because in that case, you could disrupt the second guy while barely losing DPS time on the one you were focusing down. But again, probably not finding a group that leaves outpost without Frozen Soil anymore either, despite the fun of taking down rezzers with disruption.

JimmyDeemo · Oct 12, 2010, 12:11 PM // 12:11

@Marty Silverblade: Thanks for the tips, i will try and take them on board. I've got some Heros to back me up and used Cebe's guide for that.

I have done what you said and am now rocking this setup. I chose Power Attack as it provided the most damage for the lowest energy cost and didn't require the target to be doing something (i.e. Moving). Are there any alternatives for IAS that i could go for while i wait for Flail? If not i suppose i should probably take Sprint to cancel my Frenzy, or if i have things setup right should i not really have to worry about the damage if i'm not playing HM?

Perhaps you are right about the campaign, i have actually purchased the rest now. But i think that i will finish Prophecies first. Its just that the HoM calculator is taunting me and i know if i can just get another tapestry then i would be able to dedicate my mini pet collection to full effect.

Perhaps after i finish Prophecies i might have a larger skill set and can use your guide to a larger extent. Thanks again.

Raxxman · Oct 12, 2010, 04:11 PM // 16:11

A proph warrior is probably better off going axe over sword.

Dismember/Ex Strike/Disrupting chop(or penetrating strike) are a good trinity of attack skills. You wont get Eviserate till right at the end (unless you detour to Sorrows, even then that's late), but frankly Proph sword skills don't really cut the mustard.

You can also bring in cyclone axe as a weaker whirlwind attack.

Frenzy will work, but you need to be careful with the cancel stance, Rush is another potential, but requires adrenaline. In Proph your alternatives are really only Tigers Fury (which isn't very good anymore, requiring too high an investment in beast mastery for only 25% IAS) or flurry (which can be kept up perm with a zelous weapon) which causes your dps to drop (Although still is above the norm). IWAY can work, but really needs a gimmic group to be efficent, which you wont have.

I'd suggest going flurry first till you get a feel for when you're getting hit, and switch to Frenzy when you're comfortable.

LifeInfusion · Oct 13, 2010, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Pure Strike (energy skill with 8 recharge) @14Sword it's only getting you 3.5DPS. Unblockable clause useless because you should be in a stance always.

Used this with Flourish at one time to test out an energy based warrior. It's crappy, given the new buffs to Power attack and Counterattack, which have lower recharges.

Thanks for the insight...

Quote:

Sun and Moon slash (use with 100B...not much else other than for 1 adrenaline gain) If you've got lots of +damage buffs stacked on you the second hit can often be worth more than the +40 from DSlash

I didn't think of that one. I never bothered with conjures, or going W/Mo with strength of honor. Although I see Strength of honor got a huge buff, so maybe I ought to try it. The buff made it +20 or so damage, but before that it was about 10 damage with 10 smiting.

As far as d-chop, I get much satisfaction from interrupting resses, meteor shower, and other crap nobody on my team seems to think is worth interrupting..all the while eviscerating things to pieces. Basically anything >1 second cast is fair game. Hard mode mobs don't have reduced cast times for casts below 2 seconds.

Furious axe isn't given as much credit as it should have. The bonus damage isn't that bad (+31-33) since it is the same as Counterattack, its conditional allows for you to use Lion's comfort (=more adrenaline and a heal) or other adrenaline skills such as Flail/Rush. It's no Power attack, but it's not terrible like seeking blade either.

EDIT: also, I forgot about the adrenaline-emptying power of Disarm, which isn't in crappy Tactics.

**Marty Silverblade** · Oct 13, 2010, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

I hadn't read this until now. Any Warrior Guide about tactics desperately needs mention of bodyblocking and movement while attacking. I see this was written in 2008 and tools are available to get away with things, but still... I don't why a stickied class guide should assume people are grouping with experienced players who know what they are doing. Those types don't need guides.

I've been updating it everytime I felt necessary. Latest iteration was probably late July.

Regarding the rest, I did mention body blocking a bit and included a picture in the holding aggro section. I didn't think there was much to expand on so I left it there rather than give it it's own section. Also, I don't think quarter-stepping (or whatever you call it) matters in PvE. It does in PvP where every hit counts and you want to keep yourself in melee range as much as you can but I think it's too much effort in PvE, especially when you consider how quickly foes die anyway. Super complex pulls (full balling, I assume you're referring to) is usually overkill as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyDeemo

I have done what you said and am now rocking this setup. I chose Power Attack as it provided the most damage for the lowest energy cost and didn't require the target to be doing something (i.e. Moving).

Power Attack is a good skill. However, it is quite energy intensive. If you spam it on recharge you'll run out of energy very quickly, especially with other energy skills. Having Frenzy on the bar will probably clean out your energy before you can use it much.

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Are there any alternatives for IAS that i could go for while i wait for Flail? If not i suppose i should probably take Sprint to cancel my Frenzy, or if i have things setup right should i not really have to worry about the damage if i'm not playing HM?

Regarding Flail, there really isn't any effort in getting it now that you've got the other campaigns. All you need to do to get to Elona is one quick quest. After you buy it you can jump straight back to Prophecies and not return for however long you like. Flail won't be available from Kamadan unless you unlock it with Balthazar Faction first though. The same applies for all non-elite skills (though you'll need to go to Cantha for Factions skills).

If you really don't want to jump over, Rush would be a better option than Sprint. With Sprint you'd only be able to use each of your energy skills once. Power Attack would become useless in that situation. If you're careful/get a hero to cover you with Prot Spirit you should be fine without a cancel stance for most of NM though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raxxman

A proph warrior is probably better off going axe over sword.

Hmmm, I agree, but Sword is definitely workable.

Quote:

Dismember/Ex Strike/Disrupting chop(or penetrating strike) are a good trinity of attack skills. You wont get Eviserate till right at the end (unless you detour to Sorrows, even then that's late), but frankly Proph sword skills don't really cut the mustard.

There's Hundred Blades, but thats even further in than Evis, and by the time you do you'll pretty much be up to the next campaign. Non-elites are comparable, but as I said earlier, I would lean toward axes.

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You can also bring in cyclone axe as a weaker whirlwind attack.

Agreed.

Quote:

Frenzy will work, but you need to be careful with the cancel stance, Rush is another potential, but requires adrenaline. In Proph your alternatives are really only Tigers Fury (which isn't very good anymore, requiring too high an investment in beast mastery for only 25% IAS) or flurry (which can be kept up perm with a zelous weapon) which causes your dps to drop (Although still is above the norm). IWAY can work, but really needs a gimmic group to be efficent, which you wont have.

Tiger's Fury is rubbish, forget it. IWAY is less rubbish but still not usable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Infusion

I didn't think of that one. I never bothered with conjures, or going W/Mo with strength of honor. Although I see Strength of honor got a huge buff, so maybe I ought to try it. The buff made it +20 or so damage, but before that it was about 10 damage with 10 smiting.

Yeah, I'd favor SoH over Conjures now. It belongs on a midline hero though because they can maintain it on multiple physicals.

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As far as d-chop, I get much satisfaction from interrupting resses, meteor shower, and other crap nobody on my team seems to think is worth interrupting..all the while eviscerating things to pieces. Basically anything >1 second cast is fair game. Hard mode mobs don't have reduced cast times for casts below 2 seconds.

Fair enough. Unless interrupts make a difference between survival and failure I don't see why you'd want them over more damage though.

Master Fuhon · Oct 13, 2010, 04:03 PM // 16:03

There is no direct use of the words "body block" in the guide (bodyblock first appears in post 8 by Anime Divine), which ultimately results in the newer player not learning the terminology from the guide. Learning the terminology is both a key part of doing something, and of furthering study (wiki has a section if you search body block, like it does for aggro). Nothing like having a newer warrior in some difficult mission, someone telling him to body block up front, and then seeing him continue to hit Spacebar to just follow...

"Moving while attacking" was the most generic form I could think of to specifically not make someone reference it as only pvp quarterstepping. Quarterstepping would typically just be listed as an advanced tactic within moving while attacking, but as I said it's not the only one. There are all levels of fancy styles, movement patterns attributed to specific players even, but every decent warrior repositions during combat (which means not just chasing something while mashing spacebar).

It's fairly common (among newer players I would both assume and hope), to see Warriors just C+Space and engage an enemy wherever they auto-intercept. Players should know that if these are melee mobs, whoever has aggro can be involved in repositioning them for better or for worse. This is nowhere close to complex, because most people learned it if they took a Cyclone axe/Vigorous spirit build out to solo, where hitting more foes meant survival. Note that both Vigorous Spirit and Live Vicariously are Prophecies skills. Balling enemies is far less complex than quarterknocking based on the point I learned it (I would not delete the quarterknocking section for being too advanced). In most cases it is also highly necessary to ball when healers, rezzers, minion masters with barbs, annoying spirits, or anything else might be out of killing range of your group but can still cause a wipe of some sort.

If you don't have aggro, I've found the most reliable aggro-steal thing to be some kind of knockdown-step-in-front (here it doesn't matter as much if you interrupt your attack). Which is helpful, seeing how many warriors might be coming from an environment where they are used to having a "taunt". There clearly is a diminished success rate when you aren't in the place where they are moving after a knockdown, but being able to side step allows you to knockdown from some side angles before moving in front (this has saved monks who would have been killed by overextended eles, in the far past had saved minion masters who would have wiped the group from dying). This is where I said it didn't matter so much that you interrupt your own attack.

But still, if groups are only taking one "tank" while never letting multiple melee in groups, and newer players are getting stuck with hero/hench, I'm sure there might be people who have never gotten the playing experience to learn how to do this.

JimmyDeemo · Oct 14, 2010, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Thanks a lot Marty.

So what's the best way to get the faction points to unlock Flail? I have played zero games of PvP so it might be a while for me to unlock it. I believe that the Balthazar is account wide right? So would i be better just creating a PvP character and trying to earn the points, or going with my PvE character.

I'd like to try and get it as it seems pretty important going forward, or at the very least extremely useful for PvE.

So any tips, via Marty or anyone, would be much appreciated.

Winterclaw · Oct 14, 2010, 08:22 PM // 20:22

RA. Win a few games and it'll be no problem.

**Marty Silverblade** · Oct 15, 2010, 02:03 AM // 02:03

RA will be tough to win if you don't know what you're doing or at the very least have a decent skill bar. The better option: http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zaishen_Challenge . Go for the Illusionary Weaponry team.

JimmyDeemo · Oct 16, 2010, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Thanks for the advice Marty was really quick to unlock the skill. Perhaps this little tid bit of info (re: unlocking Flail) might be useful to no hoper's like myself and adding it to the guide might help. Especially seeing as how useful it can be.

Urcscumug · Mar 07, 2011, 03:14 PM // 15:14

I'd like to add some things about shields that I don't think I've seen mentioned in this thread (hope I didn't miss it).

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Shields come with strength requirements as well, get one of those instead of a Tactics one.

Marty, can you please also copy this into the "shields" section of the guide? It bears repeating, preferably in bold.

Tact req shields are (much) more widely available than str ones. The natural consequence is that this is what newbs see most of and, naturally, they end up walking around with a tact shield and wasted attrib points in their Tactics.

7-9 points into Tactics is a horrible waste to start with. But it doesn't end there. Often they decide that since they put points in Tactics they might as well get some skills to go with it => bar slots wasted as well.

My personal recommendation is as follows, in order of priority:

0] Go Hammer and forget all about this shield nonsense.

1] Find a shield with Str requirement.

2] It's possible to find shields with no requirement of any kind, which boost AL conditionally. Here's a classic example for a 9 AL shield with no requirement, and here's another which gives a respectable 14 AL against Charr.

3] Use a shield with Tact requirement if you have no alternative; but consider the following:

* If you have 3 or 6 attrib points left over that you cannot use to raise another attribute, use them to raise Tactics to rank 2 or 3 and find a shield that gives 9-10 base AL for that requirement. I advise against this though, because you will start taking that shield for granted and resist taking back those points later (which you should do as soon as you can put them into Str or weapon).

* I submit to you that any shield with tact req 4+ is not worth putting ANY points in Tactics. It would mean ~10-48 wasted attr points for only 1-6 extra AL (over the 9-10 from the previous paragraph). Those points are much more useful in Str or weapon attributes. So use r4+ shields if you have to but without any points in Tactics. They will still give 8 AL (random 8-16 drops and all 16 shields); or 5 AL (non-random below 16 [quest rewards, collector etc.]); plus, the extra properties are not affected by not meeting requirement. Obviously, try to match the above to get 8 rather than 5, but don't stress over it.

Where to find decent shields?

* Collectors (also here), crafters, quest rewards, drops, for one. In Prophecies, check out the crafters in any outpost you reach, often they offer shields with conditional boosts against the most prevalent foe around that area (Charr, dwarves, undead etc.) Factions and Nightfall have collectors, crafters and quartermasters all over the place.

* Don't be afraid to ask around outposts and offer a few hundred in gold for a less-than-crappy shield. It's a safe bet you'll find some old-timers with a load of crap in their storage which they save for that friend who never got around to rolling a warrior, or just in case they decide to roll another warrior themselves, or because they like the skin, or because they're lazy pack rats, or because they bought a piece of junk for 1k back when they didn't know better and cannot make themselves to get rid of it. As long as you're polite and don't spam, sooner or later you will find a decent soul who will see reason and want to free up a storage slot. Even something like a shield with completely stupid req and buffs that the owner can't sell to anybody can be useful to you (see above!).

* People actually come to Ascalon City quite often and sell so-and-so golds and purples to beginners. They won't be outstanding (they wouldn't sell them to newbs for pocket change if they were) but if you're careful when you buy and then tweak them a bit later with an Expert kit you may actually end up with something decent. (Just be careful with the 50% retention chance of the Expert kit.)

Deadfalk · Mar 16, 2011, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quite nice a guide you've made, but i do have to disagree on one part;
Pets aren't weak.

I've been using a NRA Enduring Axe (Warrior's Endurance|Optional 1|Cyclone Axe|Whirlwind Attack|Optional 2|Comfort Animal|Never Rampage Alone|"Save Yourselves!", 1st optional : attack of choice (Body Blow, Power Strike, Dismember, etc.), 2nd optional : open spot, Utility or, until that, something like Melandru's Assault is quite nice.) for a while now, and with a (aggressive) pet, both of you under SoH and a 25% IAS, you deal far more damage then the Flail petless variant ever could accomplish, i've seen my own hits deal 51 damage quite the often, and my pet 41.

with my attacks on 1 hit/sec and my pet on 1 hit/1.5 sec we deal 235 damage /3 seconds on normal attacking, when combining that with the splinter weapon, orders (solely myself) and mark of pain casts, and later on perhaps EBSoH, that packs a considerable punch, with as only drawback that if my (sadly squishy) pet might die, im screwed for ~4 seconds.

So my suggestion is to change the "Pets are fun and that's it" statement to "Under circumstances, pets can be a considerable asset to your damage potential"

Besides, great guide, I'm sure everyone can learn something from it!

Edit : sorry for the wall of text

Urcscumug · Mar 28, 2011, 03:18 PM // 15:18

I'm not sure that NRA is worth giving up 2 bar slots, and a risk of a 4 second timeout is a huge letdown. Add the risks and pains of running a pet, balance it up with the extra DPS, and in my book it comes out that pets should be left to primary rangers who fill their bar with actual beastmaster skills.

Tell you what, go attack Master of Damage with and without the pet, see what he has to say. I think you'll find out that the extra DPS from the pet is not as much as you think.